I just read Drury's latest article "Sex and the Single Minister" in which he makes the following recommendations:
1. Avoid obvious offenses- prostitutes, porn, etc. Drury recommends accountability (since a single pastor doesn't have 'built-in' accountability and/or an internet program like Covenant Eyes
I'm not big on 'organized' accountability (let's face it, I'm not big on organized anything!). Both BBC and the denomination as a whole think very highly of accountability partners/groups, but I really don't. Now, some of you probably agree with me, others might think that implies I'm hiding secret sins! I suppose I could post more about my rejection of organized accountability in a later post.
2. Use extra care with minors- Drury gives the normal advice to never be alone with a minor.
Again, I think this is an over-reaction. Of course, it's a good thing to keep in mind that such a thing can be dangerous and shouldn't be sought out. But I totally disagree with the mentality that if there's a need to give some kid a ride home once in a while that I can't do it (or have to find another person to ride along). If I get falsely accused of something, I get falsely accused of something. Ok.
3. Don't date people in your church- Drury says this is unethical, comparing it to a therapist dating a client.
I disagree that it is necessarily unethical, though it is often unwise. To compare it to therapists dating their clients implies a gap between the clergy and laity that is, in my opinion, far too large. Of course, the way Drury worded it "single ministers don't date people in their church" reveals such a gap wherein the clergy consider the church 'theirs'. In a laid back country church (or any church) where all the Christians view themselves as fellow ministers, dating each other is hardly out of bounds.
4. Establish high standards for dating- Drury is basically making the point that a single minister should never 'go too far' sexually as it will always get back to the congregation.
I certainly agree with his point here, but I think he should have talked more about having high standards in choosing who 'not' to date instead of simply what 'not' to do with those you are dating. After all, if you handle the first 'not' correctly, the second not will be much easier!
5. Accept singleness but seek marriage if you want- Drury talks about where to find dates (since excluding the local congregation creates a problem given his view). He mentions larger churches, volunteer work, or online dating, but suggests that the most fruitful method of finding a match is by getting back in touch with people from your past.
I agree with all his points on number 5
So what do you think?
16 comments:
hey matt,
i liked your thoughts on the single dating person. alot of it depends on support networks, too. my girlfriend, heather, has lots of support networks in our church. my position of "power" was not so influential because she was well grounded socially here and not seeking relationship to fill voids or gaps. she was able to be critical of what a relationship might look like. all that said, we entered into the relationship with eyes wide open--as well as the eyes of many, many other wide-open.
1. In general (not limited to the issues discussed here) I am a huge advocate for accountability with some sort of structure to it because this has been instrumental in my life within the last 3-4 years. I've been wanting to blog about accountability but I have not yet articulated my thoughts on the whole deal.
2. I think that caution must be exercised to avoid vulnerability to false accusations, but I agree that it can be taken too far to that extreme of paranoia and opportunities for ministry are missed.
3. & 4. Agree with you, Matt
5. As a member of a larger church, I think it's not quite the big pool of fish that others think it would be. Online dating has such a stigma attached to it. Most people from the past are either married or not serving God.
I have gained a new appreciation for accountability lately but in a specific form. I prefer to be held accountable by one person who I do not also hold accountable and who preferably holds a position of power over me.
I agree that one needs to be cautious with minors. There are minors on this church I would be alone with breifly for appropriate reasons but untill I know them and their family quite well it's a no go.
Saying you can't date people in you church not only assumes a huge separation of clergy and laity but it continues the myth that pastors can lead a community without participating in it fully. It's the same mentality that keeps pastors from having close friends in their congregations.
I disagree with your disagreement with drury on 4. The better job youy do of picking the right potential mate the more difficult it will be to behave yourself and the more careful you will have to be. At least that;s been my observation and experiance.
Yeah, I figured I'd get some disagreeing feedback regarding accountability, especially since I didn't really expand on my view of it.
Briefly, I think accountability can be great, but I think it's usually not. And I don't think it's a 'must' so much as it is a bonus (only if you can find a good system of accountability). For you who've had good accountability experiences, sweet! I actually enjoy and endorse the type that AJ mentioned.
My bolder point would be that in many cases human accountability is used as a replacement for one's accountability to God. More on that in a later post.
Mostly, I disagreed with Drury on #3, which we all seem to disagree with him on
thanks for the feedback
I use Covenant Eyes, and it's awesome. That's all I'll say about that!
I've heard good things about Covenant Eyes. That's why I took the seconds to include the link :)
i am the anonymous ranter at keith drury's blog! i am ranting because i am mad! i am not quite sure why i am mad--or at least i am not disclosing it and hiding in the form of objectivity and siding with the victim! you are creating victims with your Christian taliban! you abuse power by using the internet which takes power and you are using that power to spread lies and your ways of powerplays!
actually, that was me.
haha
At the chuch we all had covenant eyes on our computers, but it caused interfearance with some things, so we switced to X3 watch from xxxchurch.com, much more user friendly if you ask me....and free.
yea, x3 watch "is da bidness"
I read an article about xxxchurch and i liked what i read for the most part. Free sounds better to me!
Thanks for all the replies. I'm glad Drury and Kind wrote the article since it produced lots of different thoughts and perspectives. Discussion is one of my favorite things!
God bless ;)
I think you are pretty naive in your disagreements with Drury. Accountability with a person is accountability with God. A life of integrity is one where everything is exposed to the light. Stubborness and pride are not good reasons to not be open and honest with your actions.
As far as your views on being alone with a student. You are very naive in believing that a false statement will be seen as that. It doesn't have to be true for it to end your career. If you do not cover yourself and be cautious, an accusation can end your ministry before it ever begins. Not to mention if the accusations are actually true!
Dating someone in your church is only ok if you marry them. So if you don't know that you are going to marry them from the start, I wouldn't go there... it just isn't wise and you're setting yourself up for years of akwardness... unless you continue giving teenage girls rides home, in which case, your departure will come much sooner and the akward time will be cut short.
I have no idea who you are... just stumbled onto your blog and read your disagreements with Drury... It kinda feels like you are disagreeing with him simply to get some attention as the guy that "disagrees with drury". I could be wrong.. Good luck with that.
Hey Steve, thanks for the feedback.
I'd caution you in the following areas:
1. It isn't quite fair to say that any objection to the current methods of human accountability are driven by stubbornness and pride! Actually, my views of accountability are driven by my understanding of the Bible, my observation of accountability itself, and my personal opinions. Stubbornness and pride don't play a part in my thinking on this issue.
2. I never said a false statement will certainly be viewed as false. I said 'OK'. If God's providence allows me to end up in jail or w/o a job, OK. I never said I would be foolish in who i'm alone with or how often. I'm simply redefining what foolish entails in practical ministry.
3. In my opinion it is not 'naive' to detest insurance company pleasing policy, it is practical. We can't build ABSOLUTE policies based on fear. We don't live in fear as Christians. In ministry, there are going to be some times where you're alone with someone in the congregation. We should limit those times a bit, but we can't make a blanket statement that we'll NEVER allow such a time unless we're willing to significanly decrease our ministry. I'm not.
4. I'm fine with your 'advice' about not dating someone in your congregation unless you're confident you'll marry them. If Drury would have worded it the way you did, I wouldn't have made this post at all (since his #3 was what motivated me). Big difference? You said it is unwise. He said it is unethical.
5. I don't disagree with Drury just to disagree with Drury! He's one of my favorite writers. I posted this to create discussion, which I have. I am a lover of discussion.
Thanks again for discussing.
Just a reminder for those reading my 'disagreement'
I'm not really AGAINST any of Drury's advice. I think a lot of it is wise counsel and worthy of consideration, and to be practice in many cases.
I'm against making them absolute rules. Rules, to me, are replacements for the Holy Spirit. The thing is, we serve a God who is alive. The Spirit can give us discernment about when a situation is to be avoided. We also have been given a brain to help us know when a situation is dangerous.
Can we avoid every problematic situation via the Spirit and our brains. Maybe not. But I have a feeling that whatever isn't avoided via those 2, God has some plan for.
Every time we over-organize, we are replacing the Holy Spirit. The church in our generation is doing plenty of that in my opinion.
God bless
I guess I must of missed this post.
Anyway, I think there are some differences for you Matthew where you work as a pastor at the church you grew up in. I am sure that there is a comfort level for you there and vice versa for the congregation.
Secondly, I think that being more cautious rather than not is better. WE all know the saying "Sin starts with little compromises." Plus, if I had a minor daughter, I would feel comfy with a single man taking her home etc.
I also agree with sibbie on "Most people from the past are either married or not serving God." Even though I am married and not looking, I find this statement to be true. As well as the statement about big churches.
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