Sunday, January 29, 2006
Sneaking Suspicion
I must admit that sometimes, deep down, I feel like the '2nd work of grace' was never meant to be seperated from the first and that only our watered down version of Christianity makes it necessary. This mixes with my suspicion that the reformations' emphasis on a 'free' salvation provoked the 2nd work doctrine b/c it had ignored, to some degree, the 'cost' of discipleship.
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So..your blogroller sucks. Its a grand idea. However its inaccurate. I went through your links and found at least 4 people who posted who were NOT "***"
it doesn't suck.
it's just down this weekeend
additionally, it should be remembered that any accuracy is better than nothing.
I just think it's funny how quickly we begin to rely on something... as I look at your ***-less list, I have no idea where to start clicking to find out who has blogged... I think I'll just go to bed!!
does anybody care about holiness these days?
I wanted to make a point, hence a second comment 3 seconds later...
so yes, there have been several great posts about holiness lately, thank-you. its nice to know that others are out there struggling because we haven't 'arrived' yet. maybe you are right matthew. maybe its just us that clues in what God has already done at salvation ... which means maybe it is/isn't a second work of grace. now we're back to square one.
I don't know.
I am however in the middle of processing some thoughts that involve "jackets/cloaks" and holiness...
I have that feeling too... weird... maybe it's cuz tyhe Bible says something to that effect...
ahhh... it's probably one of those weird happenstance things... lets just ignore it and go on making things up that fit Wesleyan-methodist theology.
kinda a strange situation actually
if such damage has been done to 'conversion' then a '2nd work' really is necessary.
i needed it in my life. i was 'saved' in ss before i had anything to 'give up' :)
Then, at 17, something big happened. it was either me getting 'really' saved or some '2nd work'
But either way, God was working in my life all throughout. Maybe it's not very important what theological titles to attach to my experiences and just be thankful God has been active within my religious culture (even if sometimes in spite of it)
didn't Wesley or someone call it assurance? or am I thinking of intial sanctification?
yeah, he was on a quest for assurance as far as i can tell.
after sleeping on these thoughts, i don't think it's 'just' a post reformation problem. most of the epistles seem to have been written to people who had had a conversion and yet could hardly be described as entirely sanctified.
but the point is, they were often rebuked for not being completely devoted to Christ. We sometimes consider it a bonus if we are, like it's going the 'extra' mile or something. And that's what I'm against.
I still say that, ideally, this all occurs at conversion. but whether it be false teachers, false theological systems, or whatever...we often don't fully convert and need additional episodes to give Jesus the rest of us.
we must remember an example we have in scripture though, in Acts...part of the second work is the baptism in the Holy Spirit and the effects thereof.
sometimes that baptism of the Spirit happened at conversion. I guess my 'sneaking suspician' is that every time a '2nd work' is necessary, it is due to a flaw in the presentation of the Gospel at conversion OR a flaw in the understanding of the hearer.
For instance, many of the people in Acts simply weren't aware of the Holy Spirit. As soon as they become aware, they wanted that '2nd work'.
But many in n.america are aware of the Spirit and simply don't seek to be filled at conversion. We only seek a ticket to heaven and think the Spirit filled life is 'extra'
I just think if we presented the 'cost' of discipleship DURING our presentation of the 'Gospel' we'd see many people get a '2 for 1' deal.
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